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Elmer's Glue vs. Carpenters Wood Glue / TP Pulp Recipe

#1 2012-05-21 18:59:55

trixyinaz
Member
From: Michigan, USA
Registered: 2005-08-15
Posts: 50

Elmer's Glue vs. Carpenters Wood Glue / TP Pulp Recipe

First Question:  I bought some carpenters glue b/c I couldn't find White PVA glue by the gallon in my area. Did I totally screw up by getting this glue?  I don't see too many posts about using wood glue.  Does anyone else use it?  Is there a huge difference in the white glue vs. the wood glue?  The guy at Home Depot says it's pretty much the same as Elmers White glue, but he didn't seem too convincing.  The only differences I can see are 1) it seems thicker than white glue, 2) it's this nasty looking yellow when it dries and 3) it seems to take longer to dry.

Second Question...I love using toilet paper to make my pulp (I think b/c it's white when it dries), but it's been a while since I made it last and I can't find the recipe I used previously (it was a mixture of wallpaper paste and white glue).  I'm wondering if I used too much glue in my mix; hence the slow dry time and lack of "lumps".  I used about 1/2 to 3/4 roll of TP.  I soaked it in water and blasted it through my blender.  I drained it through some cheese cloth and then squeezed out the excess water.  Broke up the chunk of TP and threw it in my food processor.  Turned it on to break it up even more and then added 1 cup of wood glue and mixed thouroughly.  I didn't add any wall paper paste b/c I wasn't sure if my daughter was going to use any and since it's "toxic" I didn't want her handling it.  It was definately a very thick paste, and this was the first time I didn't have lumps of TP that weren't saturated which is why I'm thinking the ratios might be off.  Does anyone have a recipe for making paper pulp out of toilet paper?

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by trixyinaz (2012-05-21 20:20:46)

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#2 2012-05-22 01:36:51

CatPerson
Moderator
From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1307

Re: Elmer's Glue vs. Carpenters Wood Glue / TP Pulp Recipe

White glue is usually cheaper than yellow glue.  Both are PVA glues.  The yellow coloring is just coloring.

White glue usually dries more slowly than the yellow glue, but most of the info is related to how it dries when used with wood, not PM.  Keep in mind that dry on the surface is not really 'dry'.

White glue usually dries softer than yellow glue. This makes the white glue harder to sand because it softens with the heat of friction, and comes off on the sandpaper, making it gummy.  Yellow glue dries to be more brittle, thus is easier to sand.

Carpenter glues are usually more water-resistant than the white glues.

Generally speaking, you can use many pva glues 'straight' (without diluting it), especially some of the cheaper kinds because they seem to have more water in them.  If your glue is quite thick, you may want to dilute it a bit with water and mix well before you add it to the paper.

I don't have a lot of experience using toilet paper, so maybe another person can chime in her as to exact recipes.

What kind of wallpaper paste do you use that is 'toxic' ?

Sue

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#3 2012-05-22 01:54:10

trixyinaz
Member
From: Michigan, USA
Registered: 2005-08-15
Posts: 50

Re: Elmer's Glue vs. Carpenters Wood Glue / TP Pulp Recipe

Thanks, Sue.  Other than the ugly coloring, it appears I'm okay using it - thanks!  Yeah, I have a fan blowing on the three pieces that I did yesterday.  I figure a good 3 days of drying and I should be good to add another thin layer.  Did not know sanding white glue was harder than wood glue.  I'm glad for that.  I paid $15 for the gallon jug and went online to see how much a gallon of the white glue was and it was the same through Amazon.  I swear I picked up my last gallon for around $5 or $10.  If I wasnt' short on cash right now (recently laid off), I would made the 40 minute drive to the craft store that I know carries the gallon jug.  Anyway, that was about 5 years ago and the memory isn't what it used to be so I possibly could have paid more.

As for the wallpaper paste, I bought mine already in liquid form....about $16.  It lasted me several years, but I wasn't making anything during that time.  I picked it up at Home Depot.  I'll have to look at the brand when I go back upstairs and let you know, but it clearly states on the back it is toxic and to avoid skin contact - I never heeded that warning 'cuz I can't stand working with gloves on.  My skin seemed to hold up just fine...God knows what it's done to my insides after it seaped through my skin...LOL.  Is there a "non-toxic" brand that you know of and would recommend?  I just felt it added extra adhesives so I liked using it.

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#4 2012-05-22 22:05:06

CatPerson
Moderator
From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1307

Re: Elmer's Glue vs. Carpenters Wood Glue / TP Pulp Recipe

Here's a site that describes the different types of wallpaper pastes:
http://www.wallpaperinstaller.com/adhesives.html

The (methyl) cellulose types shouldn't be toxic, and the wheat flour shouldn't be, either.  The vinyl and vinyl/clay probably wouldn't be so good to eat, but I wonder what in it would bother your skin???

Sue

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#5 2012-05-23 18:13:43

trixyinaz
Member
From: Michigan, USA
Registered: 2005-08-15
Posts: 50

Re: Elmer's Glue vs. Carpenters Wood Glue / TP Pulp Recipe

That's weird.  I swear it said toxic when I first bought this bottle, but maybe I assumed it was toxic b/c of their warnings.  I just looked at the bottle again.  It doesn't say toxic, but does say to avoid contact with skin and if a rash occurs to see your physician.  The brand is Roman's Golden Harvest GH-80 Paste for Unpasted Wallpaper.

I'll need to find some cethyl cellulose paste.  The link you posted didn't come through, but I'll do a search on the topic.  Thanks for all your help.

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#6 2012-05-24 21:18:30

Jackie
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From: England
Registered: 2002-09-14
Posts: 389
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Re: Elmer's Glue vs. Carpenters Wood Glue / TP Pulp Recipe

Have you seen Martin Favreau's toilet paper recipe in the tuturials section?

You don't have to use all the ingredients Martin uses unless you want to. I like using toilet paper as you can get an almost porcelain like appearance (subject to a lot of sanding). I only ever use it as a top coat. I soak the paper in boiling water and break it up with a wooden spoon. I don't find liquidizing it makes much difference. Sometimes I use wallpaper paste as my adhesive, sometimes pva which I use undiluted.

My figures of Darcy and Elizabeth have toilet paper heads and arms:

http://www.papiermache.co.uk/gallery/item/9589/

It can take quite a long time to dry and will need building up where it has shrunk. The wetter it is, the more it will shrink.


Jackie

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#7 2012-06-08 14:43:08

trixyinaz
Member
From: Michigan, USA
Registered: 2005-08-15
Posts: 50

Re: Elmer's Glue vs. Carpenters Wood Glue / TP Pulp Recipe

Thanks, Jackie.  Yes, I've seen his tutorial.  Since I didn't have some of the ingredients he references, I just used wall paper paste and PVA.  The first time I did it, I had lots of lumps in it.  The 2nd time I got the idea to get the TP wet and mash it and then add my glue (above) and I got a nice clay like pulp, but it seemed too wet.  I just finished putting on the 2nd layer of pulp on a few pieces and WOW!  I totally love it.  I'm waiting for those to dry so I can start adding more details.

I am making a few money banks and this was so easy to work with and didn't take that long to dry.  The surface is nice and smooth with a few minor areas that I have to sand out, but overall, it should be much easier to sand than my previous things I've made.  I decided to roll out the pulp with my rolling pin.  It makes for a very nice surface.  Then I just fliped it over onto my armature and started smoothing out with my fingers.  I used a piece of plastic wrap between my fingers and the pulp while smooting it out.  Almost as smooth as a baby's butt.  I did this in sections and just smoothed the seams together.  You can't even tell. 

I can't wait to finish them!  Thanks for all your help....next time I'll just break up the wet TP with a spoon.

Have a lovely day!

Vicki

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