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Coffee Grinder question

#1 2011-11-18 15:57:41

paper soup
Member
From: Small Town Texas USA
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 107

Coffee Grinder question

I have been grinding my paper with small home use grinders for quite some time, and the results are great, but I tend to work on a large scale and it gets tedious grinding large amounts with the small grinders. Not to mention they overheat easily. I am considering purchasing a commercial grinder to speed things up a bit. I have found used ones that aren't terribly expensive, but still a fair investment. I see some that hold 2-9 lbs of coffee at a time, and I am hoping that they could handle larger loads of paper beans than the small portions I am limited to now.  I was wondering if anyone has used the commercial grinders, and if so, how do they hold up?

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#2 2011-11-18 17:09:43

dopapier
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From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Coffee Grinder question

Working with a grinder on dry paper will inevitably build a lot of resistance.  Why not work with paper in water - e.g. the tutorial by Miranda Rook on making pulp.  The equipment can be quite simple, dealing with large quantities effectively.  The only down side is remove excess water, or drying totally if you want to store the product for later use.


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#3 2011-11-19 02:34:46

paper soup
Member
From: Small Town Texas USA
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 107

Re: Coffee Grinder question

Miranda's work is very impressive, and I do use that method for some things, but I find that the clay is not as uniform as that which is made with ground paper. I haven't used the egg cartons, but have always meant to. My absolute favorite paper is crepe paper streamers, it  makes an amazingly smooth clay, better even than toilet paper. I also like my clay very ,very dry, so I like to start with the dry 'lint' A personal preference suppose. I guess I'll just carry on with my small grinders for a while until something else presents itself. I've been doing it this long so I guess it won't hurt for a while longer.

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#4 2011-11-20 19:40:46

bmaskmaker
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From: Takoma Park, MD
Registered: 2010-04-08
Posts: 93

Re: Coffee Grinder question

I look at grinders periodically too.  For the most part my small spice/coffee grinder works fine, but I wonder about being able to do larger amounts. 

Have you tried a blender?  (Not with water, but dry.) ...  I've had some ok results. 

My other idea is looking into drill attachments.  I currently make my clay in a 2 or 5 gal bucket using a paint/mud mixing drill bit in my hand drill.  I looked just looked on a papercrete site and they recommend an x-shaped stucco drill bit for mixing papercrete.  That actually looks more like the spice grinder blade than the mud mixer. 

If you already have a drill, the blade apparently is ~$11 at Home Depot.  Actually that's less than I paid for my spice grinder.  : )

Not sure if a regular bucket would work, or if you'd need to get something narrow (more closely matched to the dimensions of the mixing attachment ...  but worth experimenting. 

I may see if I can find the stucco attachment and experiment as well.  : )

-- Beth

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#5 2011-11-22 18:48:28

paper soup
Member
From: Small Town Texas USA
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 107

Re: Coffee Grinder question

The drill and mixer attachment sounds intriguing. I have a mud mixer that I have used with larger batches of my courser clay, but haven't thought of using one as a grinder on the dry paper. I have considered a food processor, as they have various blades for various types of mayhem. I think the next time I run accross one at a yard asle or thrift shop, I will give one a shot.

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#6 2011-12-26 11:58:28

mavigogun
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From: Istanbul
Registered: 2009-04-22
Posts: 106

Re: Coffee Grinder question

Re-ground pulp is unquestionably finer than pulp that has just been hydrated/cooked/blended- it produces lovely light lint.   When it comes to using the lint, though, what's the best way to add binder and fillers that doesn't just drive the lint back into clumps?

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#7 2011-12-26 13:16:25

dopapier
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From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Coffee Grinder question

I have used only a little of the manufactured milled paper but found that a paste with a proportion of PVA and a filler of ground chalk worked OK, though it needs quite a lot of mashing (with a kitchen fork) to get it really smooth and even, making sure it is not too moist.  I also used a very small amount of boiled linseed oil to help the smoothing operation.
DavidO


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#8 2011-12-28 22:01:37

bmaskmaker
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From: Takoma Park, MD
Registered: 2010-04-08
Posts: 93

Re: Coffee Grinder question

When I use the mud mixer to mix my clay it declumps everything for me.  I start by mixing my wet ingredients by themselves and then add the dry ingredients about 1/3rd at a time ... so they don't get too clumpy all at once. 

What do you use to mix yours?

Also, something I've been curious about but haven't gotten any to experiment with is wood and cellulose flour.  The sites where I've seen them listed are boatbuilding sites -- boat builders use them as fillers with epoxy.

Here's a cellulose listing:

http://www.clcboats.com/shop/products/b … kener.html

Here's a wood flour one:

http://www.clcboats.com/shop/products/b … flour.html

It's not the same as grinding your own paper ... but might be helpful to see if wood or paper powder is worth the hassle of trying to find a larger grinder.

-- b

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#9 2011-12-29 02:05:43

CatPerson
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From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: Coffee Grinder question

I have also wondered about the wood flour.  There is a local mill that produces it.  I think they only sell wholesale, but I've been too busy (and scatterbrained) to check into it.  I was thinking of asking if they had a broken bag, etc.

I have never heard of anyone in PM who has tried it.  It appears to be very fine, 'flour' being the operative word.

Bmaskmaker, here is a list of wood flour producers, just in case there is one near you (if you're in the U.S.):  http://www.wpcinfo.org/suppliers/fibers/

Sue

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#10 2012-01-02 15:35:07

paper soup
Member
From: Small Town Texas USA
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 107

Re: Coffee Grinder question

I love the ground paper. Without a doubt the finest pulp. For me, I mix with my hands only, a lot like kneading dough. I'm also horrible with strict recipes, I add whiting, or paste as I go to achieve the texture I'm looking for. Also by using my hands I can guage the right consistency. When it stops sticking and pulls from my hands easily, it is done. It starts out horrible messy, but when mixed fully it pulls off cleanly, a lot like dough in fact. It is my young son's favorite part of the Paper Mache process, he calls it making Mooshy Mush.

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#11 2012-01-02 18:29:21

CatPerson
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From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: Coffee Grinder question

I had an idea about this yesterday, but haven't tried it.  What do you think?

Cut or tear paper into squares or rectangles all about the same size (I'm thinking maybe 3x6" / 75mmX150mm).  Dip several into water, then stack on top of each other to form a brick (maybe 1- 2" / 25-50mm).  Let drain so most of the excess water is gone.  Then carefully STAND on this damp brick and press as much of the extra moisture out as possible.  Dry in sunlight, solar oven, or regular oven at low temps (not more than 200ºF / 93º/C) until completely dry.

Then wear a dust mask and sand it with an electric sander and fairly coarse sandpaper.  You would probably have to do it in a box to confine most of the valuable paper dust.

Maybe it wouldn't work.  You might lose quite a bit into the air.  Maybe it would just be too labor/time intensive.  Not all my "great" ideas work, you know!  ;-)

Sue

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#12 2012-01-02 20:24:12

dopapier
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From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Coffee Grinder question

The box would have to be big enough for you to get inside??!!  lol


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#13 2012-01-03 15:03:36

paper soup
Member
From: Small Town Texas USA
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 107

Re: Coffee Grinder question

Whew paper dust! That sounds messy LOL but wouldn't it be a wonderfully fine material? My first thought was to do it mechanically, and to start with coarse ground pulp dried into a brick or ball (like Miranda) and then place it into a container lined with an abrasive. Something like a rock tumblers. I have considered doing that, but mine requires water, which of course wouldn't work. But I guess if I'm dreaming, a paint can shaker would work. Line a paint can with emery cloth, load your brick then shake away. Theoretically it should produce a very fine powdered paper without all of the work and mess. Now to find one LOL.

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#14 2012-02-15 07:51:28

Mark Brown
Member
Registered: 2012-02-14
Posts: 1

Re: Coffee Grinder question

I have never heard of anyone in PM who has tried it.

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#15 2012-02-26 10:47:10

Pelletor
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From: East Coast USA (mid Atlantic)
Registered: 2009-08-05
Posts: 32
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Re: Coffee Grinder question

When I 1st read about PM "Clay" I was eager to expand my efforts past torn paper strips and glue (flour water or PVA).  My 1st batch made from shredded newspaper was course with pebble like texture but it turns out that texture worked well for the frog I made but I wanted a smoother texture.   

I replaced newspaper with toilet paper (TP) and that gave better results but I hated the idea of buying TP only to shred it.   After thinking about why PM clay made with TP was smoother then clay made with newspaper I came to the conclusion TP was made to break up quickly in water where newspaper has binders added and was more resistant.   To test this I made a 3\4 inch dia. (19 mm) ball from newspaper pulp with no glue or joint compound added and it held together, I still have it.  I was surprised enough with the results I took a picture that can be seen below:
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn34 … Sphere.jpg

In an attempt to solve this resistance of newspaper not breaking down easily in water I thought to use an old Osterizer blender my wife was kind enough to donate to my search for the "perfect PM clay cause".  I had used this before and bogged it down as I had also bogged down and smoked both my Dremel tool and hand drill trying to make creamy PM clay.

Consider how well this Osyerizer worked for "normal" cooking I thought to add more water so as to not bind the blender (a watery mix) and it worked very well.

When mixed with pastes of various kinds I got very creamy PM clay. I always add salt as a preservative ( I know some take issue with salt but it has worked well for me) and in one clay attempt I added olive oil and liquid dish soap (soap to increase solubility) is was so creamy it was sticky like peanut butter but it worked well if i kept tools and finger wet.   I never made a batch with less olive oil and liquid dish soap but it is on my list "to do" list.

Below are the notes I made some time after I made the pulp.

New way to make creamier Pulp ‭ (‬made from newspaper ‭)
‭Used a new but still inexpensive paper shredder that cuts paper into strips 1/4"  wide by about 1/4“ to 3/4“ lengths thus eliminating the need to shorten them further

Two large hand fulls of this newspaper “confetti" where placed in a bowl of water‭ and ‬boiled and hand stirred for about 30 min or so. ‭  ‬Two tablespoons of salt were added and stirred in at this point to help prevent molding.

After it has cooled a bit about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 of a cup of this very watery mix was placed in my Osterizer Blender. Using the “Pulse"  button and the blender set on “blend" I mix for short burst ( 3-4) seconds) for about 10-12 times then switch to the “liquify"  setting and use that for  30 seconds, repeat that 3-4 times.  This makes for an absolutely lump free pulp and hence a creamy PM clay.  Having it as a watery mix prevents smoking the blender.

‭Repeat these steps until all the boiled newspaper confetti have been processed to make lump free pulp.   Remove some of the water and store in a plastic tub in the fridge until needed.

When ready to make PM clay placed this mash in cheese cloth and squeeze out the water. The mash will not stick to the cheese cloth and it should look and feel like clay when rung out.‭  Use this damp ( not watery)  newspaper pulp to make the PM clay.

Last edited by Pelletor (2012-02-26 10:48:49)

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