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My large project + avoiding the pitfalls = sharing best practices

#1 2010-02-05 17:53:37

Barbara
Member
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2010-02-05
Posts: 5

My large project + avoiding the pitfalls = sharing best practices

Help! I live in Ontario, Canada and am a newbie to this site and am preparing to embark on a large project so I'm online, researching techniques and strategies & not finding much for PM. Although I've worked with many PM projects of various sizes over the years, the largest was a full size man with one arm up holding a speaker shelf (like a boom-box) on his shoulder. I built the platform structure with a pole just shy of 6' running through the centre and then molded chicken-wire (around my husband) which we then secured to the pole on the platform. Then I covered him with many, many layers of PM. He lived with us for years and was a wonderful conversation starter. One night he even spooked a burglar who injured himself while trying to escape from what he thought was a large man in the dark positioned to throw something. lol

This new project of mine is for a "strawberry tea fundraiser" in June 2010, and I am making 12 small (12" diameter cup) and 1 giant (4' diameter cup) teacups with saucers. The small ones will be table decorations, displaying various herbs and flower arrangements and the large one (which will be waterproof) will float on the wishing pond and folks will purchase balls to toss into the cup. It is my intention, near the end of the day, to auction each of the 12 cups as ART.

I'm wondering if anyone here has worked on a project of this magnitude? I'm hoping to avoid as many pitfalls as I can. I'll be taking photos along the way and would be happy to share the journey if that's appropriate.

Looking forward to hearing about your large projects.


"Creativity is not the finding of a thing, but the making something out of it after it is found." ~ James Russell Lowell ~

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#2 2010-02-06 02:57:19

CatPerson
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From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: My large project + avoiding the pitfalls = sharing best practices

I think the first thing you'll have to do is find some appropriately-shaped molds.  Not the entire teacup, but finding something of the right size that resembles the shape of the cup(s) would be a big step forward.  For the smaller cups, perhaps some of those balloon-type kids' playballs that are cheap, or a 12" beach ball.

For the large one... four feet!  WOW!  Does it really need to be that large?  I'm thinking if you could make it smaller, you could use one of those exercise balls (usually 25"-28" diameter), or a large beach ball (some are called 48" diameter, but I think that is when they're flat -- I'm not sure).  The beach balls are usually quite seasonal.

Once you get the cup parts made (that's the hard part), add the handle and the base.  Both could be made from fairly thick rope, covered with PM.  Determine the size, sew or glue the ends together to make a circle (for the base), then PM it to the bottom of the cup.  The handle could be rope hot-glued to the cup.  Then go over the whole thing with more PM and work on the finish.

Once the large cup is made, I certainly wouldn't do much testing on how waterproof it is before the event.  Also, this large of a cup will probably be rather delicate, due to the excessive span without much support.  Got kids?  Tell them if they mess around with it, they WILL die.

Others here will probably have more ideas.

Sue

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#3 2010-02-06 20:30:36

Barbara
Member
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2010-02-05
Posts: 5

Re: My large project + avoiding the pitfalls = sharing best practices

Thanks Sue!

I really appreciate your considerations on what materials to use. I see where you're going with the beach ball... my challenge I think is that I want to take the logic I apply to the small mold and scale it up for the giant one. For the small one, I built a teacup shaped frame out of wire. My first thought was to begin with thin PM layers on the inside of each (12) cup (working on each stage with all 12) so that by the time I get back to #1, it's dry and then layer over the wire for the finished side.

For the giant teacup (once I've got the frame/mold) I will use newspaper and newsprint on every other layer so I can see where I'm going and where I've been.

lol @ waterproofing - No kids allowed to ride or climb! and the last thing I want is the giant teacup titanic. At this point,I have a couple ideas... I think I'll use marine varnish: the advise of a friend who restores boats; or perhaps waterbased epoxy right in the PM paste.

Unfortunately, I am not too confident that the wire frame idea will actually work.

I'd love to hear what others think.

Cheers*

Last edited by Barbara (2010-02-06 20:39:16)


"Creativity is not the finding of a thing, but the making something out of it after it is found." ~ James Russell Lowell ~

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#4 2010-02-06 20:35:44

paper soup
Member
From: Small Town Texas USA
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 107

Re: My large project + avoiding the pitfalls = sharing best practices

Four feet is really large. I immediately though of using a trash can for a mold, but even that won't be 4 feet, I think they are about 3...maybe? A large plastic flower pot would make a great teacup shape as well, but I'm not sure you could find a 4 footer.
Sounds like a fun project!

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#5 2010-02-06 21:12:55

Barbara
Member
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2010-02-05
Posts: 5

Re: My large project + avoiding the pitfalls = sharing best practices

Ya, 4' is large... (perhaps too enthusiastic) ...but as you say, FUN!

My neighbor has wonderful plastic flowerpots outside (frozen solid right now) that would work great for the small ones but I can't upscale the logic of this small project to work on the giant one.

The other thing I wondered about is molding (out of chicken wire) over small bbq tank & the end of a giant propane tank... every round shape I see now has some kind of potential.

It'll be an adventure.


"Creativity is not the finding of a thing, but the making something out of it after it is found." ~ James Russell Lowell ~

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#6 2010-02-07 04:01:22

CatPerson
Moderator
From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: My large project + avoiding the pitfalls = sharing best practices

"...every round shape I see now has some kind of potential."

HA!  Join the club! 

I have used chicken wire for both PM and concrete.  And I can tell you with certainty that A) for rounded things, it is a real pain to fit and tie with strand wire-- the tighter the curves, the harder to make round; and B) after a certain point, it is quite unsteady for a large, open, unsupported design.  If you can prevent it from flexing while you work on it, it could work.

For the smaller balls, personally, I wouldn't waste the considerable time it would take to mold and fit the chicken wire.  Try one and see if you really want to do it twelve times.  I would probably end up tearing all my clothes off and running, screaming, down the street.  I was doing it with 16" diameter balls, and by the time I had two done, I swore I would never do it again.  Your patience may be more excessive than mine.

A dozen 12" beach balls would be very do-able and cheap.  Just buy as many as you need and use the assembly-line method.  Sit them in bowls so they don't roll around.  Look at these:  http://www.orientaltrading.com/ui/brows … each+Balls   CHEAP!

I did think of the large propane tank, but due to your time frame, I was wondering if the weather would cooperate long enough for the piece to dry.  Something that large can't be removed when it's still damp, or it will collapse.  [We don't need to go into how I know that... it was ugly.]

The only other large thing I can think of is old metal ocean buoys, but again, you have that outdoor weather that could ruin a lot of work.  And where would you find one?  And indoors???

Wait a minute... there is another way to make a form, but it's labor-intensive, cardboard-intensive, and would probably take quite a bit of hot glue.  But you could do it indoors.  And the size would only be limited by the first piece of cardboard.

Tape some large sheets of paper (newspaper?) together so you could draw a four-foot circle on it.  Use a string and a pencil to make the circle (and probably you'll need a person holding their thumb on the string in the center).  Carefully mark it off into halves and then into quarters.  (Here's a way to find the center:  http://www.mathopenref.com/constcirclecenter2.html)

Cut a large piece of cardboard to make a half-circle (mark a center line), and two quarter-circles. 

Set the half-circle on edge, flat edge down.  Butt one of the quarter-circles up to the marked line and hot-glue it to the half-circle.  Repeat on the other side.

Then cut a bunch of quarter-circles.  Fit them into the center.  However much it joint edge doesn't touch the center cardboard, trim off that much and hot-glue that in place.

Repeat, repeat, repeat.  The more cardboard quarter-circles you add, the more they will be placed farther from the center, so you'll have to keep measuring (or making good estimates) and trimming that much off.  Otherwise, your cup won't be round, but more like a rounded square.

You'll need 'enough' pieces to keep the papier mache rounded.  If you try to do it with (for instance) only eight sections, you'll get a cup with eight flat spots around it.  If that's okay with you, it's okay with me, but you'll have to decide before you move on to the next step.

Once you've got enough pieces in place, cover the entire curved bottom (which is on top) with thin plastic (painting dropcloth will do) and tape it in place. 

Then start applying strips or patches over the whole thing.  Go for the largest pieces you can, trying to avoid wrinkles.

You could probably add strength by fitting chicken wire over the protective plastic, then applying your paper.  Apply three layers and let dry.  With help, carefully lift the wire off the cardboard form.  If it feels too fragile, set it back down and apply another three layers.  Dry and try again.

And for heaven's sake, don't try this all by yourself!

Once it's rigid enough to hold it's shape without damage, remove your cup and turn it upright.  It would be easier if you have something cuplike to set it in to keep it steady.  A weighted garbage can might be good, or one of those handy plastic (20-30-gallon) tubs.

Then apply more papier mache to the inside, up to three layers at a time.  Let dry between layers so you'll know how close you're getting to the optimum thickness for the strength you need.  Once you're getting close, don't forget to cover the edge with several layers.

Hey, this is looking easier and easier, isn't it? (heeheeheeheehee!)

Sue

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#7 2010-02-07 10:14:50

dopapier
Moderator
From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: My large project + avoiding the pitfalls = sharing best practices

mmmmmmmmmmmm  4 feet? mmmmmmmmmm make it indoors? mmmmmmmmmm  better check the door width before starting or it might STAY indoors. lol
DavidO
PS  It reminds me of someone who made a boat indoors.


I'm a PM addict

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#8 2010-02-07 14:55:20

Barbara
Member
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2010-02-05
Posts: 5

Re: My large project + avoiding the pitfalls = sharing best practices

I am so grateful I found this site. Not only is there an abundance of information, links & inspiration but there's a community here and I feel supported by your suggestions and expertise. It's funny that it wasn't until I saw "don't do this alone" that it occurred to me that most of the folks around me don't get the importance of 'creative' expression.

Anyway, no therapy necessary ~ I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the openness to share tips & tricks.

I've been wondering about starting this since November so I was feeling a bit like I've wasted the last 3 months... but just bouncing ideas around is helping me to find much needed confidence and I'm feeling pretty good about at least how to approach the starting...

BTW:

Yes - I'll be indoors & heated (it's sub zero until at least March)
Yes - the door is big enough to get out (lol - what a nightmare that would be!!)
Yes - lol - the large propane tank would be used only to form the mold... then I'd transport it back to the PM HQ. I wouldn't PM in the great outdoors... although I think it would draw a lot of attention and might be a great publicity stunt.

Anyway, I'm off to run a "Vision Boarding" workshop. Look forward to hearing what others have to say.

Last edited by Barbara (2010-02-07 14:56:08)


"Creativity is not the finding of a thing, but the making something out of it after it is found." ~ James Russell Lowell ~

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#9 2010-02-07 16:56:31

dopapier
Moderator
From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: My large project + avoiding the pitfalls = sharing best practices

What on earth is 'Vision Boarding'? . . . if I may ask . . .
DavidO


I'm a PM addict

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#10 2010-02-08 04:26:51

CatPerson
Moderator
From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: My large project + avoiding the pitfalls = sharing best practices

+1 on the Vision boarding.  Is that like water boarding except you have to look at pictures???   ;-)

If you use the propane tank, what do you plan on using for the mold?

Sue

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#11 2010-02-08 04:56:57

Barbara
Member
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2010-02-05
Posts: 5

Re: My large project + avoiding the pitfalls = sharing best practices

lol - It's not as exciting as riding waves while looking at pictures but Vision Boarding is a fun & creative process that takes you through goal setting using inspiring pictures & significant words cut & pasted from magazines. If nothing else, it's wonderfully creative & a great way to focus on what you want.

    "...If you use the propane tank, what do you plan on using for the mold?"

Great question. Confession: I have no idea!

Last edited by Barbara (2010-02-08 04:57:45)


"Creativity is not the finding of a thing, but the making something out of it after it is found." ~ James Russell Lowell ~

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#12 2010-02-10 08:41:35

CatPerson
Moderator
From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: My large project + avoiding the pitfalls = sharing best practices

The only time I've heard of someone actually using the end of a propane tank was someone who wanted a half-sphere in concrete.  She made a mold of papier mache on the tank, then covered it with plastic sheeting and formed concrete over it.

But maybe you could take a page from Ratbagradio's research on paper coracles (another thread)... You would have to wait for warmer weather though...

I was just thinking you could tape plastic sheeting to the end of the tank, saturate some cotton sheeting in exterior latex house paint, and use that as a cloth mache mold.  Of course, if it came out well, maybe it could be your cup...

Sue

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